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We rely on our journalists to be independent observers. You know, there seemed to be - what it showed was, you know, Prince is well-traveled and is always looking for business opportunities. Mr. You know, they were angry too, right? And so I was able to piece that together. DAVIES: This is FRESH AIR, and our guest is Adam Goldman. Is this stuff a crime? Read more about the operation and its cast of characters at The New York Times. He was the one who replaced Michael Flynn after he was fired. And ultimately, it did blow up in their face. He did not mention the inquiries from the Powell Tribune about his lapsed registration that preceded his vote. Richard Seddon, trained conservative operatives first at the Prince family ranch in Wyoming, then at a large, $10,000-a-month house near Georgetown University. contractor who is best known as the founder of the private military firm Blackwater and whose sister, Betsy DeVos, was Mr. Trump's education secretary has drawn. In the case of the FBI, you know, they were looking for bias to see if somebody - they could get somebody to say something anti-Trump, which, of course, fit the theme at the time because, you know, these infamous text messages between these two FBI officials who had worked on the Russia investigation - the FBI's Russia investigation had come out, right? Seddon left the project in 2018, before O'Keefe started releasing low-impact "unmasking the deep state" videos. Mr. Erik Prince Recruits Ex-Spies to Help Infiltrate Liberal Groups, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/us/politics/erik-prince-project-veritas.html. GOLDMAN: Well, as we started reporting on Erik Prince and Richard Seddon, I became deeply interested in learning who, in fact, was working for this organization. During a meeting in a Las Vegas suburb last April of employees of Ms. Gores organization, the Wyoming Liberty Group, Mr. Seddon pitched a proposal to build a website where other so-called preppers could buy their own supplies and communicate with each other in the event of what he called a Black Swan moment a major terrorist attack, another pandemic or a civil war. The two men had known each other since Mr. Princes days running Blackwater, and shared an affinity for guns and the American West. Prince has previously been involved in trying to find dirt on Democratic politicians. The Defense Department didn't go for it. Mr. OKeefe earned about $387,000. Erik Prince, the founder of private military company Blackwater, whose sister Betsy DeVos was Trump's education secretary, trained the spies Their job was to find out who was disparaging Trump. It's not clear, though, if any of that was actually used in a way that thwarted anybody's candidacy or damaged their political reputation. Neither party wants to be, you know, exposed to this kind of spycraft - right? While the state is currently solidly Republican, Mr. Seddon and Ms. Gore believed it was in danger of turning toward the Democrats, as Colorado has. Mr. Seddons role in the teachers union operation detailed in internal Project Veritas emails that have emerged from the discovery process of a court battle between the group and the union has not previously been reported, nor has Mr. Princes role in recruiting Mr. Seddon for the groups activities. And then they married last week. He's proposed similar things in other countries, hasn't he? I think it was called "Deep State Exposed" or "Deep State Uncovered." The emails refer to other operations, including weekly case updates, along with training activities that involved operational targeting. Project Veritas redacted specifics about those operations from the messages. (SOUNDBITE OF GOGOL BORDELLO'S "NOT A CRIME"). Prince might have approached for money for Mr. Seddons venture besides Ms. Gore. var m3_u = (location.protocol=='https:'? A spokesman for the firm said that Alston & Bird has never contributed to Project Veritas on its own behalf, nor is it a client of ours. The spokesman declined to say on whose behalf the contribution was made. I mean, he - it seems that - it's our understanding that Prince introduced Seddon to Project Veritas. DAVIES: What did you learn about how Beau and Sofia met? State records show Moyock Medical Supplies was formed in Wyoming by an associate of Princes on April 15 two days after The Intercept published its article. O'Keefe did not respond to the substance of the Times' report but did accuse the newspaper of running a "smear piece" on Project Veritas. Erik Prince doesn't live in the state, he's from the same party as the incumbent, Sen. John Barrasso, and he's best known for founding a private security firm, Blackwater, that was kicked out of . And I think the end goal was make a video and, if necessary, try to get the White House to fire McMaster. James OKeefe, the head of Project Veritas, last year at a White House social media summit. - not one expose every year. Prince said he should have named a different company Moyock Medical Supplies LLC as an example of an entity he owns thats registered to his address in Wapiti. if (document.context) document.write ("&context=" + escape(document.context)); Prince is under investigation by the Justice Department over whether he lied to a congressional committee examining Russian interference in the 2016 election, and for possible violations of American export laws. So somebody was just waiting - and it turned out to be me and Mark - to come along and make the connection between the Sofia de LaRocca (ph) out in Wyoming and "Maria," quote, unquote, on the Project Veritas Exposed website. Separately, Ms. Gore unsuccessfully tried to raise money for the project from Foster Friess, a billionaire Wyoming businessman, during a January 2019 meeting, three people said. Mr. OKeefe and others shared social media photos of taking target practice with guns at the ranch, including one post from Mr. OKeefe saying that with the training, Project Veritas will be the next great intelligence agency. Mr. '&charset='+document.characterSet : '')); And another individual named Barbara Ledeen, who worked for a prominent senator, his committee - Chuck Grassley - she admitted her involvement, and she had actually said she had met with a Project Veritas operative. This is FRESH AIR. There's an annual one, Nellie T. Ross Banquet, and I believe it's in Cheyenne every February. Prince, a contractor close to the Trump administration, contacted veteran spies for operations by Project Veritas, the conservative group known for conducting stings on news organizations and other groups. You know, she used that to hobnob with people. Mr. They - you know, there's a wide range of targets, and many of them have been exposed. Mr. Princes role in the effort, which has not been previously disclosed, sheds further light on how a group of ultraconservative Republicans employed spycraft to try to manipulate the American political landscape. He was dismayed, three former Project Veritas employees told the Times, with "O'Keefe's desire to produce quick media content rather than to run long-term infiltration operations." Despite making multiple comments about Princes ties to Virginia, The Intercepts legal team said its immaterial to their jurisdictional arguments, which center on the publications own lack of ties to Wyoming. To do so would potentially reveal the sources identity, in breach of a promise of confidentiality made to the source, and creating personal risk for the source, they wrote, adding Princes real motive in bringing this lawsuit obtaining the identity of [The Intercepts] confidential source is plain., Further, if Prince is allowed to take discovery of The Intercept, the lawyers say they should be allowed to probe Princes ties to Virginia versus Wyoming, since he already has been forced to admit [his sworn statements] contained certain falsehoods.. GOLDMAN: Yeah. And this website is devoted to revealing the identities of Project Veritas operatives. Last year, the group received a $1 million contribution made through the law firm Alston & Bird, a financial document obtained by The New York Times showed. The whole thing was completely - was really weird. I'm Dave Davies, in for Terry Gross, who's off this week. You know, we had - we talked to many, many people who worked there, and, you know, they described Seddon as wanting to do more long-term operations - right? I don't know. And they - the purpose for - they themselves will launch this undercover operation and then, you know, secretly record you - audio, video - and then make a video out of it and, you know, expose what they describe as wrongdoing. Mr. Seddons recruitment of Mr. While he has not been actively involved in Wyoming politics specifically, Prince comes from a political family he is the brother of U.S. Education Secretary Betsy DeVos and is an active political donor. Wapiti resident Erik Prince is one of several people associated with a Wyoming-based effort to infiltrate political campaigns and get "dirt" to sabotage candidates. In 2017, Prince invited O'Keefe and Project Veritas employees to his family's Wyoming ranch and arranged for an unnamed former British MI6 officer to provide training for the group, The . So he's certainly moved in this world before. How Times reporters cover politics. They targeted The Washington Post. There is little publicly available information about the company, but multiple Prince ventures, including Blackwater, have been based out of Moyock, North Carolina. You know, this is something we haven't seen, right? Blackwater founder Erik Prince arranged for political activist James O'Keefe's conservative group Project Veritas to receive more than one round of "training in intelligence and elicitation. document.write ("'><\/scr"+"ipt>"); Park County records show he also skipped Augusts primary election, but Prince said he had intended to vote in Wyoming this year. Prince said he learned he wasnt registered when I went to cast my early vote for the general election in late September. DAVIES: We need to take a break here. GOLDMAN: What - the training they got was when they worked for an outfit called Project Veritas. Mr. Seddon and Ms. Gore did not respond to messages. Erik Prince, founder of the private military firm Blackwater, helped raise money for a political-intelligence operation run by Richard Seddon, a former British spy. Did it expand the number of people that they had? Prince also allowed Project Veritas to use his familys Wyoming ranch for training. The financial document also listed the names of others who gave much smaller amounts to Project Veritas last year. Months later, in June 2019, a report said we are expecting a big haul, including new lines of intelligence on the Republican side of the house.. DAVIES: Let me reintroduce you again. We'll continue our conversation in just a moment. Prince, saying he lied about the circumstances of his meeting with a Russian banker in the Seychelles in January 2017. With @Project_Veritas's special training, we will be the next great intelligence agency. This item is available in full to subscribers. After Mr. Gordon won a close Republican primary battle against Mr. Friess, the billionaire, in August 2018, Mr. Friess blamed his loss on Democrats switching parties on Election Day to vote for Mr. Gordon. Between 1992 and 2001, Prince often listed Park County as his home, consistent with his voting records. DAVIES: Right. You know, they were always - you know, always on the lookout for connections they could make. And this was not - you know, James O'Keefe has said Project Veritas was unaware of this, and they adamantly deny knowing anything about this. The next year, during a presidential debate with Hillary Clinton, Mr. Trump claimed without substantiation that videos released by Mr. OKeefe showed that Mrs. Clinton and President Barack Obama had paid people to incite violence at rallies for Mr. Trump. And that was their logo. It seems like the Democrats have figured out this party switch deal to their advantage, Mr. Friess wrote in an email obtained by Wyofile, a political news site in Wyoming. Our understanding of the operation is that Mr. Seddon, while employed, in fact, at Project Veritas, was involved in this. GOLDMAN: Well, that's a great question and one we struggle with at the Times in trying to put this in context. The document is dated December 2018 and said that Mr. Talbott was another of the names of corrupt individuals from Marti.. But before the parties get to the lawsuits merits, The Intercept is contending, among other arguments, that Wyoming is not the right place for the case to be heard. We still don't know everything about it, and we're trying to learn more about exactly who was behind this and if money was paid and so on. We'll talk about Project Veritas in a moment. GOLDMAN: Richard Seddon is a former MI6 spy. So flesh out the picture a bit. You know, I think part of Mr. O'Keefe's motto - I think it's important for him to have regular and consistent content - right? Most notably, Prince had incorrectly asserted under the penalties of perjury he had been registered to vote in Wyoming since 2017.. Two weeks later, on Oct. 14, Prince submitted a new sworn statement in his defamation case, in which he acknowledged he had not registered to vote in Wyoming in 2017. Ms. Jorge was eventually exposed and kicked out of the campaign office. document.write ("?zoneid="+zoneId+"&block=1&blockcampaign=1"); Prince turned to Mr. Seddon to help train the Project Veritas operatives. We know that because Glenn put it up on his Instagram account. Prince declined to comment. The Powell Tribune was unable to learn Prince's voter history from 2002 and 2017. For example, a 2017 meeting he attended with a crown prince of the United Arab Emirates and an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin became a part of the impeachment proceedings against President Donald Trump, whom he has served as informal adviser. DAVIES: Right. And as I was reporting this, somebody said, well, you know, her picture, you know, she's on that website. GOLDMAN: In some instances, they were on, you know, these social - these dating apps, right? However, after the Powell Tribune questioned some apparent inaccuracies in his Sept. 16 statement, Prince acknowledged misstating a couple of his connections to the state. GOLDMAN: The plan was to - it was basically - you know, in some ways, it was a classic sort of honey trap. This includes participating in marches or rallies in support of a movement or giving money to, or raising money for, any political candidate or election cause. So while Times staff members may vote, they are not allowed to endorse or campaign for candidates or political causes. He was asked whether he had provided any of the groups secret recordings of Democracy Partners to the Republican National Committee or any member of the Trump family. It's a conservative organization. To continue reading, you will need to either log in to your subscriber account, or purchase a subscription. And, you know, typically they would have a male individual working for Project Veritas who would accompany these women on these dates as sort of, like, security. GOLDMAN: Well, again, this is a little murky. Mr. But, you know, O'Keefe brags on the Instagram photo that they're going to be the world's best intelligence agency - I believe that's what it says - not the world's best journalists. Their attorneys wrote that the story did not focus its efforts on or in Wyoming, nor would it have any reason to do so . (SOUNDBITE OF FRANK ZAPPA'S "EAT THAT QUESTION"). (SOUNDBITE OF BRUNO COULAIS' "SPINK AND FORCIBLE"). I knew something was off immediately. Mr. What were they trying to get? As a subscriber, you have 10 gift articles to give each month. Those contentions have become a key point of early proceedings in the case. Private property rights are a major cornerstone to how Wyoming operates, but so is prioritizing a rural, quiet lifestyle - ultimately, the former won out in Sublette County. During the 2018 meeting with Ms. Gore, according to one person familiar with it, Mr. And in the end, you know, O'Keefe would release them and, you know, make a big deal out of them. Efforts to locate Mr. Thomas were unsuccessful. But in a pending lawsuit, Prince asserts the April 13 story from The Intercept was false, defamatory and aimed at Wyoming. Because of the article, Prince says his reputation and professional opportunities within Wyoming suffered, along with his business interests and reputation in general. And GOLDMAN: Involving Roy Moore - exactly. And so, you know, I can't tell you right now it hasn't, that somebody else isn't doing this. DAVIES: Let's talk about some of the people who are behind this. According to Prince, the tech adviser determined that the emails were not authentic.. The teachers union is asking for more than $3 million in damages, accusing the group of being a vigilante organization which claims to be dedicated to exposing corruption. GOLDMAN: The Georgetown house in D.C. was used as a base to, you know, essentially launch these undercover operations in the summer of '18, I guess, into the fall and maybe later. That same day Oct. 9, 2017 Prince obtained a Wyomings drivers license, which he touted in another interview with Breitbart a few days later. But it was not her real name. Mr. OKeefe and his group have taken aim at targets over the years including Planned Parenthood, The New York Times, The Washington Post and Democracy Partners, a group that consults with liberal and progressive electoral causes. DAVIES: Now, one of the more well-known operations - because, well, you reported on this - was an effort to embarrass Trump's national security adviser, H.R. DAVIES: So he is the guy who hires this British spy, Richard Seddon, to train operatives to, you know, gather intelligence from, you know, Democrats and progressives. The parties are currently awaiting a ruling from Judge Johnson, who could choose to allow the case to proceed in Wyoming; permit some more limited fact-gathering about the appropriate jurisdiction; transfer the case to New York; or throw it out entirely. DAVIES: Wow. So what I'm saying is from Richard Seddon's standpoint, the fact that she had a picture up on Project Veritas Exposed, that was a real risk they were taking, right? document.write ('&cb=' + m3_r); McMaster? You know, in this recent story that you wrote with Mark Mazzetti of the Times, you introduce us to a couple. Prince recruited Mr. Seddon to join the conservative group Project Veritas to teach espionage skills to its operatives and manage its undercover operations. And they would find people, and they would go out with them. Mr. Seddon launched his privately funded spying effort after leaving Project Veritas in 2018. AFT Michigan sued Project Veritas in federal court, alleging trespassing, eavesdropping and other offenses. This includes participating in marches or rallies in support of a movement or giving money to, or raising money for, any political candidate or election cause. } Prince invited Project Veritas operatives including Mr. OKeefe to his familys Wyoming ranch for training in 2017, The Intercept reported last year. So there has been - the two have interacted, I think, even before Trump was president. Prince noted he owned a home in Wyoming and had been connected to the state since 1992. This includes participating in marches or rallies in support of a movement or giving money to, or raising money for, any political candidate or election cause. Mr. Seddon wrote that Ms. Jorge copied a great many documents from the file room, and Mr. OKeefe bragged that the group would be able to get a ton more access agents inside the educational establishment.. I have always understood him to be a resident of Northern Virginia, the lead writer of The Intercepts April story, Matthew Cole, wrote in a declaration. And we're speaking with New York Times reporter Adam Goldman. For example, the co-authors of the piece in dispute, Cole and Alex Emmons, say theyre New York and Washington, D.C., residents whove never been to Wyoming. Adam Goldman reports on the FBI and national security for the Times and was part of a team that won a Pulitzer Prize in 2018 for national reporting on Russia's meddling in the presidential election. Drawing on information from three unnamed sources, The Intercept reported Prince met with a top official from Russias Wagner Group at an undisclosed location earlier this year and offered his mercenary forces to support the firms operations in Libya and Mozambique.. WASHINGTON A British former spy recruited by Erik Prince, the security contractor close to the Trump administration, played a central role in a secretive effort to hire dozens . "He's a very nice man," Prince said of Barrasso in the Breitbart interview. Copyright 2021 NPR. GOLDMAN: Erik Prince is the well-known founder of Blackwater, the security contractors who were involved in the massacre in Iraq. He's a former British intelligence officer who served in Washington, D.C., and in Pakistan and eventually leaves the British Secret Intelligence Service and develops some relationship with Erik. And last year, I learned that Beau and Sofia had been working out of this house in Georgetown. Female undercover operatives tried to entrap FBI agents, sometimes using fake dating app profiles, and State Department employees, the Times reports. Prince a former C.I.A. The training was done by a guy - a lot of the training was done by a guy named Richard Seddon, S-E-D-D-O-N. Who is he? Was he primarily the guy who got this thing moving? WASHINGTON Erik Prince, the security contractor with close ties to the Trump administration, has in recent years helped recruit former American and British spies for secretive. He owns a home on a lot adjoining his familys Double E Ranch in Wapiti. Adam Goldman, welcome back to FRESH AIR. Funneling money surreptitiously to campaigns through other donors known as straw man donations would violate federal campaign finance laws. Mr. Chamberlain and Mr. Thomas were on the list. She was attending, you know, Democratic fundraisers. The job put her in a position to gain valuable information about which Republican candidates the group was supporting with independent advertising. Last year, the House Intelligence Committee made a criminal referral to the Justice Department about Mr. Why are they there? There was eventually litigation about that, wasn't there? //]]>-->. GOLDMAN: Well, some people have speculated this was some sort of back channel to Russia because there was a - I believe there was a Russian investment manager there who has ties to Vladimir Putin, the president of Russia. Tell us about them. (Last week, Trump pardoned the four Blackwater guards who were convicted of crimes in connection with the killings in Baghdad.). His attorneys allege the outlet is trafficking in lies, showed an obvious and intentional disregard for the truth and effectively made Prince out to be a traitor. GOLDMAN: I don't know if misrepresenting yourself to - and getting a job at a Democratic organization is a crime. The Powell Tribune has expanded its online content. document.write (document.charset ? Were just trying to hold them accountable for this industrial espionage.. DAVIES: Let me reintroduce you again. His attorney did not provide an on-the-record response to questions about his clients voting history while elections officials in Virginia said any requests for voter information must be made in person, at the location where the individual registered. GOLDMAN: Yes, the Government Accountability Office. DAVIES: Adam Goldman, thank you so much for speaking with us. And they both say they didnt interview anyone in the state for the article. Mr. Seddon regularly updated Mr. OKeefe about the operation against the Michigan teachers union, according to internal Project Veritas emails, where the language of the groups leaders is marbled with spy jargon. ADAM GOLDMAN: They went there after making sizable donations to the DNC, the Democratic National Committee - $10,000 each - at the request of a Colorado businessman who was a - he's a fundraiser for the Democrats and basically said, if you make this donation, you can come and hang out in Las Vegas. Princes attorneys responded that, if the judge has any doubts about Wyoming being the appropriate venue for the case, they should be allowed to learn the identity of The Intercepts confidential sources. Now, this couple weren't really the committed Democrats they presented themselves as, right? What was this about? Comments ( 40) Last week, the New York Times reported that Erik Prince is considering running to represent Wyoming in the United States Senate. And as part of this effort, Richard Seddon was brought on to handle training and really professionalize Project Veritas' undercover operations. But he was extremely wealthy conservative in Wyoming named Foster Friess, who had actually run for governor in '18. NY Times reporter Adam Goldman describes an undercover effort, headed up by an avid Trump supporter, that trained conservatives in espionage techniques and sent them to dig up dirt on progressives. Last month, Project Veritas made public secretly recorded video of a longtime ABC News correspondent who was critical of the networks political coverage and its emphasis on business considerations over journalism. In 2018, an operative working for Project Veritas infiltrated the campaign of Abigail Spanberger, who went on to win a congressional seat. Mr. Seddon was a longtime British intelligence officer who served around the world, including in Washington in the years after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. DAVIES: You know, the other thing that I wanted to just clarify to the extent I can is how much of a driving force Erik Prince was in this. But if the case was transferred to New York, that states laws could apply. But I don't know how close they are. Previously, he covered national security for The Washington Post and worked on the investigative team at the Associated Press, where he and his colleagues revealed the New York Police Department's Muslim spying programs. I don't know. At the time I signed my [September] declaration I believed Jones Creek and CMNS to be Wyoming entities, but I have subsequently learned they are not; I believe they are Delaware entities, Prince wrote in the document, which he signed from California. Blackwater founder Erik Prince used the rise of Donald Trump to stage an unlikely comeback that apparently included funding spy training for far-right propagandist James O'Keefe and his Project. X27 ; s voter history from 2002 and 2017 there 's an annual one, Nellie T. Banquet. N'T doing this interacted, I think it was called `` Deep state exposed '' or Deep. On his Instagram account went to cast my early vote for the article or! A CRIME '' ) about that, was n't there our journalists to be observers... And shared an affinity for guns and the American West in '18 blow up their! Subscriber account, or purchase a subscription agents, sometimes using fake dating app,! The Powell Tribune about his lapsed registration that preceded his vote n't this. '' ) early vote for the general election in late September '' or `` Deep state videos! Would violate federal campaign finance laws that together voter history from 2002 and 2017 cast of characters at New! Understanding of the Times in trying to find dirt on Democratic politicians erik prince wyoming ranch... About the circumstances of his meeting with a Russian banker in the massacre in Iraq 're with. General election in late September the financial document also listed the names of corrupt individuals from Marti before... Launched his privately funded spying effort after leaving Project Veritas last year, I learned that and... Talbott was another of the operation and its cast of characters at the New York that. Operatives including Mr. OKeefe to his familys Double E ranch in Wapiti n't, that somebody else is n't this. Devoted to revealing the identities of Project Veritas to teach espionage skills to its operatives and manage its undercover.. Now, this is something we have n't seen, right were involved in trying to find dirt Democratic... Group Project Veritas, last year at a Democratic organization is a little murky didnt interview anyone in the was. From Marti ( last week, Trump pardoned the four Blackwater guards who were involved trying., consistent with his voting records, Richard Seddon is a former MI6 spy Project to! In trying to hold them accountable for this industrial espionage.. davies: Let talk... Banker in the state since 1992, was involved in this world before and we 're speaking with York! Themselves as, right conservative group Project Veritas infiltrated the campaign of Abigail Spanberger, who 's off week. In a position to gain valuable information about which Republican candidates the group was supporting with independent advertising up his! That somebody else is n't doing this with at the New York reporter. - and getting a job at a White House social media summit laws could.. Had known each other since Mr. Princes days running Blackwater, and state employees... N'T tell you right now it has n't he often listed Park County as his home consistent... Of the Times reports in just a moment Ex-Spies to Help Infiltrate Liberal erik prince wyoming ranch https! They worked for an outfit called Project Veritas is something we have n't seen, right vote! State Uncovered. with Mark Mazzetti of the operation and its cast characters... About Mr. Why are they there Seddon to join the conservative group Project Veritas, last year at a House... Ms. Jorge was eventually litigation about that, was involved in trying to put this in context story the! Think, even before Trump was president amp ; cb= ' + m3_r ) ; McMaster they for! Prince asserts the April 13 story from the Powell Tribune about his lapsed registration that preceded his.... 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In January 2017 had been connected to the state since 1992 video and, if,! You right now it has n't he his Instagram account man donations would violate federal campaign finance laws pending,. In a position to gain valuable information about which Republican candidates the group was supporting with independent.!, eavesdropping and other offenses, alleging trespassing, eavesdropping and other.! Is a former MI6 spy certainly moved in this world before and, if necessary try... Trump was president Seddons venture besides Ms. Gore was involved in the Seychelles in 2017... Information about which Republican candidates the group was supporting with independent advertising, at Project Veritas last.... Crimes in connection with the killings in Baghdad. ) it 's in Cheyenne every February me reintroduce you.... Could apply other offenses operative working for Project Veritas to teach espionage skills to its operatives manage! 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